“We Need a New Deal”: Interview with UNESCO’s Gabriela Ramos
Gabriela Ramos is a plenary speaker at the World Human Rights Cities Forum to be held this October 7–10 in Gwangju. She will be speaking on “Local Governments Building the Post-COVID-19 World: Public Services and HR Challenges.”
Ms. Ramos is Assistant Director-General for the Social and Human Sciences of UNESCO, where she oversees the work being done to build inclusive and peaceful societies. Her objectives include the achievement of social inclusion and gender equality, advancing youth development, anti-racism and anti-discrimination, and ethics in artificial intelligence.
Prior to her present position, Ms. Ramos served as the Chief of Staff and Sherpa to the G7, the G20, and APEC in the OECD. Her work to promote gender equality earned her the 2017 and 2018 Forbes Excellence Award as well as being included as part of Apolitical’s 100 Most Influential People in Gender Policy in both 2018 and 2019.
Recently, the Gwangju News was fortunate to conduct this interview with Gabriela Ramos. — Ed.
Gwangju News (GN): Thank you, Ms. Ramos, for making time for this interview. Could you first tell us a bit more about your transition from the position of OECD Chief of Staff and Sherpa to the G7, G20, and APEC to that of being the Assistant Director-General of UNESCO? Was working with UNESCO something you have long aimed for, or was there a specific experience or moment in your career that motivated you toward your current post?
Gabriela Ramos: I am a strong believer of multilateral solutions, so my career path has constantly followed this credo. The experience at the OECD was fantastic because I was able to advance the agendas I care about, the ones that are focusing on improving people’s lives. In fact, the effective multilateralism that I practiced at the OECD prepared me well for the challenging position in UNESCO. It is more challenging because we have the world in UNESCO, while the OECD has 38 members. But both institutions care about the issues I have been promoting all of my life: inclusive societies, fair distribution of the benefits of growth, women’s rights, children and youth well-being. But in this sense, UNESCO is unique, as it is an institution promoting peace through education, culture, science, and sports. This is so necessary today.
As the Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences at UNESCO, my job includes several important work streams to promote social justice and intercultural dialogue, advance women’s empowerment and youth engagement, support the most disadvantaged groups in society, and fight racism and discrimination in all its forms. I am also leading the work on urban inclusion by leveraging UNESCO’s member cities in the International Coalition of Inclusive and Sustainable Cities (ICCAR), a global platform of more than 500 cities around the world advocating for global solidarity and collaboration to promote inclusive sustainable development free from all forms of discrimination. The City of Gwangju is one of the stellar examples of inclusion and diversity, as advocated by the ICCAR platform.
According to the World Economic Forum, only 1 percent of the world’s total population possesses over 35 percent of all private wealth, which is more than the bottom 95 percent combined![1] OXFAM reported that during the COVID-19 pandemic, the increase of wealth for the world’s ten richest men could pay for vaccines for all.[2] From the UNHCR’s data, there are 82.4 million forcibly displaced worldwide due to persecution, conflict, violence, or human rights violations.[3] And according to the United Nations, global hunger levels have increased because of conflict, climate change, and the economic impact of COVID-19, with one-tenth of the global population – between 720 million and 810 million – being undernourished in 2020.[4]
With these staggering facts and figures, we cannot stand by blindly when so much suffering is happening around the world. We all have a responsibility, and fulfilling it while supporting those that are in greater need is a privilege. Doing it through an iconic institution such as UNESCO that has done so much for the world is a dream!
GN: The topic of this year’s 11th World Human Rights Cities Forum is “Human Rights in Times of Challenge: A New Social Contract.” As a member of the Lancet Commission on COVID-19, as well as based on your experience as UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General, what do you think are the new aspects of human rights that need to be pursued, and who are the most profoundly affected by the pandemic?
Gabriela Ramos: Many countries around the world were not well prepared to face the pandemic, and even some of the most advanced struggled with insufficient health services and equipment. Countries that could do it, put trillions on the table to keep the economy and the society going, but this was also related to filling the gaps in social protection systems. Therefore, the pandemic needs to bring about the necessary changes that we were considering given the new world of work in the digital age. During the last world recession in 1930, a New Deal was enacted, and workers’ rights and protection were enhanced. We need a new deal to both mend the impact of the pandemic and to be better prepared. We need to consider payments into health systems as an investment and not as an expenditure. We need universal health coverage. We need to avoid children missing school after the pandemic. But more than anything, we need to focus on the well-being of people when defining economic and social policies, and UNESCO is at the center of this. Intangibles such as culture, education, social cohesion, science, and sports should come at the forefront, along with gender equality.
The triple downfall of the pandemic is that the world is unequal in exposure, unequal in response, and unequal in recovery. Inequality did not cause the current crisis, but it certainly exacerbated it, so in proposing solutions for a sustainable recovery, we must examine how inequality is likely to make it harder to reach our post-COVID-19 goals, and that requires an in-depth analysis of the multidimensional nature of inequality. The Social and Human Sciences sector of UNESCO is addressing inequalities through an innovative agenda for inclusive growth, focusing on people’s well-being, especially for the most vulnerable social groups and those at greater risk, including women, youth, persons with disabilities, and indigenous populations.
GN: Your dedicated work on reducing inequalities dates way back. In 2019, you launched the Business for Inclusive Growth (B4IG) platform, endorsed by the French G7 Presidency, bringing together 40 major multinational companies committed to reducing inequalities. Could you tell us a bit more about that?
Gabriela Ramos: In the fight against the major problems in the world, we need a stakeholder approach. I was really proud to build this coalition of major multinationals that committed not only to responsible business conduct, but to put their commitment to reduce inequalities at the core of their business models. These measures include ensuring better distribution of the dividends of growth, better protection for workers, gender equality, reduction of climate footprints, and doing it all through better metrics of success. The aim is to move away from the mindset of maximizing shareholder value to maximizing societal values.
Fast forward to UNESCO, and we are also promoting this, particularly by calling for a more inclusive and sustainable digital transformation with the adoption of the ethics of artificial intelligence. Inequalities exist in this emerging field as well. AI-driven growth is likely to be highly unequal. By 2030, economic gains are expected to be strongest in China and North America, representing 70 percent of AI’s global economic impact. AI has a “winner take all” dynamic that needs to be regulated. The concentration of AI in the hands of few high-income countries will likely leave developing countries far behind. AI also contributes to widening existing gender gaps: Only 22 percent of all AI professionals are women. Because they are underrepresented in the industry, gender biases and stereotyping are being reproduced in AI technologies. Therefore, UNESCO is pursuing a people-centered approach: UNESCO’s Recommendation on the Ethics of Artificial Intelligence is an ambitious yet policy-friendly blueprint. It aims to guide the development and deployment of AI technologies and to provide an overarching ethical framework fostering and enhancing the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms.
GN: Your work to promote gender equality has been widely recognized, garnering for you both the 2017 and 2018 Forbes Excellence Awards, and Apolitical’s 100 Most Influential People in Gender Policy recognition for 2018 and 2019. What, in your opinion, is the key to achieving gender equality?
Gabriela Ramos: Policies matter, and for example, we are proud that Korea is providing a very generous dual parental leave policy. If we want to make progress, we need to legislate equality. This can be done if we legislate that we are equal, and that women can also inherit or make their own decisions. We need to legislate equal pay, as all over the world, there continues to be a pay gap that even in advanced economies is around 14 percent. We also need incentives. When Blackrock, a major investment fund, signaled that it would not invest in companies with low female representation, we experienced a step towards the advancement of female representation at the top of the corporate board. Affirmative action and quotas work, too. As with the quota in the Mexican Congress, which I worked to promote, that delivered equality.
But we also need to change mindsets. Korean men do not take parental leave, even if it is available, because they fear stigma or a negative impact on their careers. We need to change this. The stereotypes and biases that put women in charge of the care economy and men in charge of the market economy is not sustainable. This is why we are launching a project called MENtalities, which aims to tackle the cultural and social norms that reinforce harmful stereotypes and disregard personal ambitions and wills. It is not about women or men. It is about an unfair cultural and institutional setting that leaves women behind. Several Ministers for Gender Equality of G20 countries have expressed their interest in joining us in this endeavor. This support is key, for achieving gender equality requires both changes in legislation and changes in mindsets and behaviors.
GN: At the March 2021 UNESCO Global Forum Against Racism and Discrimination, you moderated the panel titled “How to establish anti-racist policies: Policymakers at the forefront of the global fight against racism.” What is your current standpoint on cities’ involvement when it comes to anti-racism and an anti-discriminatory agenda?
Gabriela Ramos: Cities are key to this effort, as they are the main providers of services and support. They are also the first link when people are in need. The pandemic and the fight against the pandemic happen in cities. The terrible racist expressions that led to the Black Lives Matter movement also happened in cities. So, the solution also relies on a multilevel governance approach that puts cities at the center. At UNESCO, we are convinced of this, and this is why we work closely with ICCAR. As part of our anti-racism efforts, we are developing a toolkit to make mainstream the anti-discrimination lenses in different areas of policy action, including at the city level. We will test this toolkit with cities across continents. UNESCO has also progressed in rolling out global capacity-building initiatives that combat racism, including the Master Class Series against Racism and Discriminations. Since its launch in November 2019, UNESCO has organized 13 editions of the Master Class, training more than 5,000 young participants in collaboration with partners including ICCAR member cities. I am very grateful to the City of Gwangju for collaborating with UNESCO to launch a new series of Master Classes for Korean youth in the context of the World Human Rights Cities Forum.
GN: What do you envision in the future for ICCAR and its members in terms of contributions to build inclusive and peaceful societies? Also, how do you see the World Human Rights Cities Forum helping in achieving that vision?
Gabriela Ramos: We need more action in ICCAR. We have some very active members like Gwangju, and others that are less so. We need a race to the top and for the cities that are ahead of the curve to inspire others to follow. We need to bring the mayors together, every year, with specific commitments and actions that can be tracked and followed up on. This can take place at the Global Forum Against Racism, as we did in 2020 with a panel of mayors. But we have to aim for more. We seek partners who share the same dream of fostering inclusive and sustainable cities. I am very optimistic that with UNESCO’s cooperation, with the City of Gwangju and South Korea, and with the global platform that the World Human Rights Cities Forum provides, we will be able to raise the profile of ICCAR and make it more robust.
GN: Finally, how do you assess the current role of Koreans and the Korean government in UNESCO? What are your expectations for the future role of the Republic of Korea?
Gabriela Ramos: The Republic of Korea is always supporting the best causes of humanity. I learned this while at the OECD, and particularly when I worked w the country’s government in the presidency of the G20 that delivered so many good outcomes. As for my time with UNESCO, my experience is also the same.
Through the leadership of the Republic of Korea, UNESCO’s member states adopted in December 2020 the landmark “Global Call Against Racism,” which invites the international community to pursue initiatives aimed at scaling up local, regional, and worldwide cooperation to combat racism and discrimination. Through this global call, UNESCO will develop an anti-racism roadmap, together with member states, that will provide a strategic and operational framework to strengthen efforts to combat racism and discrimination. I am also very proud of our partnership with the Republic of Korea, which together with us co-organized the Global Forum Against Racism and Discrimination held on March 22, 2021. This forum provided essential direction for the onward elaboration of the anti-racism roadmap. Bringing together ministers from several countries – including France, Mexico, the Republic of Korea, Slovakia, South Africa, and the United Arab Emirates – as well as experts, practitioners and champions from all regions, the Global Forum aimed to foster an evidence-based dialogue among countries to identify the best practices, build a global front of partners against racism, and identify the next steps for developing the anti-racism roadmap.
GN: It’s nice to hear that Korea’s contributions are so well recognized internationally. Thank you, Ms. Ramos, for letting us know more about you and the work that you and the organizations you work with are doing to promote social justice on all its forms.
Photographs courtesy of Gabriela Ramos.
Sources
[1] Agenda in focus: Fixing inequality. World Economic Forum. https://www.weforum.org/focus/fixing-inequality
[2]Wealth increases of 10 men during pandemic could buy vaccines for all. BBC News. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55793575
[3] Global trends: Forced displacement in 2020. UNHCR. https://www.unhcr.org/pl/wpcontent/uploads/sites/22/2021/06/2020-global-trends.pdf
[4] Conflict, climate change, COVID, forces more people into hunger.UN News. https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/07/1095672
Photographs courtesy of Gabriela Ramos.